Deutschland – Schulsystem

regardless whether they support all of the five pillars all of the time? Why not ask them to promise they’ll do that? If not, then bye. Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:31, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a religion. It has no creed. It has no articles of faith. Asking people to make 'promises' unverifiable through any Earthly powers would achieve nothing, beyond quite possibly putting a great number of people off through being so utterly patronising. Judge people by what they do, not what they promise to believe in. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Making a promise has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with honesty. Honest people who promise to support the five pillars will make an effort to abide by them, and will leave Wikipedia if they feel unable to abide by them. I think there’s a non-negligible number of Wikipedians who are honest, don’t you think? As for the dishonest ones, sure, a promise would be worthless, and Wikipedia’s flawed and feeble mechanisms for stopping concerted gangs of propagandists will continue to fail no more than they already fail. Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:04, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to have a somewhat naïve understanding of the human psyche in regard to such things as self-assessment of personal 'honesty'. If we were really like that, the world would be a much simpler place. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:08, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Promises can sometimes be worthwhile even when there’s no promise-enforcing mechanism. You vaguely suggest I’m naïve, so I’ll return the favor by suggesting you’re cynical. I think there are quite a few honest Wikipedians who don’t give a hoot about one pillar or another, and feel free to violate those pillars because (1) they never promised otherwise, and (2) they are able to get away with it. Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If there is credible evidence that cynicism is less efficacious than naivete in predicting human behaviour, I'd like to see it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ok, who or what is this about? ltbdl☃ (talk) 01:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The cynic in me (i.e. most of me, sadly) thinks it is mostly about wishful thinking. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Honesty Can Be Cultivated, Despite Cynicism. In any event, honesty does exist among both cynics and non-cynics; Wikipedia could do a much better job of harnessing it. To the extent it exists, asking people to make and keep a promise is far from futile. Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:39, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Back in the 1960s I was what was then known as a Wolf Cub. I was required to regularly recite "I promise that I will do my best, to do my duty to God and to the Queen, to help other people, and to keep the Cub Scout Law". I am now an atheist, and (in the not-in-favour-of-monarchy sense) a republican. Does that make me dishonest? AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:46, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hope not, it’s up to you. You’re not a Wolf Cub anymore, and doubtless your promise in the 1960s no longer applies. Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:15, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The Delhi High Court on Thursday issued a contempt of court notice to Wikipedia after ANI claimed that the platform had failed to comply with orders to disclose information on subscribers who made allegedly defamatory edits on ANI's Wikipedia page."

For the interested. ANI here is Asian News International. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A decent summary of the case can be found in an article by The Hindu here - [1]. Ravensfire (talk) 12:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scroll.in has a decent update:[2]. That WP is a public utility is an interesting idea. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This continues to be an interesting case to see how the courts handle a case like this with the 2021 IT Rules, with some (small) parallels to what's happening with X in Brazil. What would stopping Wikimedia from doing business in India involve, beyond cutting off donations? I know the usual Wikimedia playbook around things like this, but will it work in this case with a judge that's already skeptical. Ravensfire (talk) 13:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fundraising was my thought as well. And they can of course go Turkey/Pakistan/China on us. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's the interesting question. There's a decent level of technical knowledge and resources available, can India craft a block that would be effective, with VPN's being the easy answer, and any work-arounds would be quickly shared. It would slow down editing from India, I think, more than it would affect reading. Ravensfire (talk) 13:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The court wants an "authorised representative of Wikipedia". Do we have those? "Your honor, I'm pleased to tell you that the WP-communities have started an RFC on Meta intended to authorise a representative, and the result of the discussion will be communicated to you as soon as the discussion has concluded, closed by an independent closer a panel of independent closers, and possibly reopened after a complaint about the close." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I snorted soda laughing at this. Fortunately, nothing beyond my pride was affected. Ravensfire (talk) 13:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

5 months later: "Your honor, the result of the discussion has been confirmed to be no consensus." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"As this is a collaborative process, we invite you and the representatives from ANI to particpate to better clarify the responsilibities involved, the expected qualifications and setup a new process to determine how best to determine our representatives." Ravensfire (talk) 13:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"You have now been blocked for making legal threats, which you are of course free to pursue off-wiki." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It would obviously be unwise of me to comment on any ongoing legal matter without first consulting with the WMF legal team, but rest assured that I'm keeping a close eye on this one.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]